E+E Leader: Sustainability Unveiled
Welcome to "Sustainability Unveiled," a podcast that delves into the essential domains of Sustainability, Environmental & Energy Management, Compliance, Global Supply Chains, and more. Prepare for insightful conversations that dig deeper than the superficial, enriched by our distinctive human approach that amplifies expert analysis.
Join us as we navigate the juncture of environmental stewardship and corporate initiatives through captivating discussions that reveal fresh perspectives and practical solutions.
Embark on a transformative journey with us as we unravel the intricacies of forging a sustainable future. Welcome to a podcast that transcends the ordinary, revealing the authentic core of sustainability.
Interested in being a part of this program?
Apply Today: Form
E+E Leader: Sustainability Unveiled
Bridging Global Health Security, Policy, and Sustainability: A Conversation with Dr. Zara Ahmed
Imagine a world where health and environmental policies are seamlessly integrated, empowering nations to combat crises more effectively. In this episode of Sustainability Unveiled, we promise you’ll gain insight into this compelling vision through our conversation with Dr. Zara Ahmed, a distinguished public health and policy expert. Dr. Ahmed walks us through her journey of transforming scientific insights into actionable policies that bridge the gap between government and science. She highlights the urgent need for international collaboration to fortify global health and environmental security, drawing from past crises to inform future strategies.
As we explore the volatile dynamics of the voluntary carbon market, Dr. Ahmed shares lessons learned from global health financing that could stabilize these markets and ensure genuine climate impact. The discussion offers practical guidance for governments, businesses, and other stakeholders looking to engage meaningfully with carbon markets. We navigate the economic advantages of climate action, presenting it as an apolitical endeavor that can lead to cost savings and job creation.
Together, we explore how making climate information accessible can empower individuals and policymakers alike to make informed decisions. Concluding on a note of inspiration, Dr. Ahmed invites listeners to reflect on their roles in fostering sustainability, urging them to integrate sustainable practices into their leadership journeys. Join us for an episode filled with insights, practical advice, and a call to action for a more sustainable future.
Connect with Jessica Hunt and the rest of the team at Environment+Energy Leader - LinkedIn l Twitter l Facebook l Instagram l YouTube l BlueSky
Do you have an idea for an episode?
Call for Speakers - Environment+Energy Leader
Like what you hear? We'd love your support! Please share, like, and review our podcast! Use #EELeaderUnveiled
Additional Opportunities to Support
Welcome to Sustainability Unveiled, the podcast where we explore the policy, strategies and innovations shaping a more sustainable future. I'm your host, jessica Hunt, and today we're diving into a critical conversation at the intersection of global health security policy and sustainability. As we navigate an ever-evolving political and environmental landscape, businesses must adapt to new challenges while driving meaningful impact. Joining me today is Dr Izara Ahmed, a renowned expert in public policy and global health security. With an extensive career spanning roles at the Guttmacher Institute and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, dr Ahmed brings a wealth of knowledge on how public health policy shapes corporate sustainability efforts. Today, we'll be discussing the growing role of businesses in global health resilience, the regulatory landscape ahead and how organizations can strengthen their sustainability strategies through proactive policy engagement.
Speaker 1:Again, we are so pleased to have Dr Zahra Ahmed on with us today. Thank you for being here. Thanks so much for having me. I know we have a lot to get into today, so let's jump right in. You've had an extensive career in global health policy, working with institutions such as the CDC and the Guttmacher Institute. What really drew you to this field and how has your experience shaped your approach to advocacy and policy development?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So everything about my career has been a wonderful surprise. Each new chapter is one I could never have anticipated or guessed. The short version is that my dad and his whole family are doctors and my mom and her whole family are in business, and I saw really clearly how different their work was, the challenges they face, and that they kind of spoke different work languages, and so even as a kid I kind of ended up translating between them or thinking about things from different perspectives.
Speaker 2:So after getting an undergrad degree in political science from Brown, I decided to get a couple of master's degrees, one in public health and one in public policy. And I did that because public health people know how to design and implement good programs, they understand evidence and research, but they generally have no idea how the government works and they don't know how to get their good ideas funded or scaled up. And, on the other hand, public policy, they're the inverse. They don't know the details of any particular area really, but they know the mechanics of government, they know how to operate and get things through the system.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to learn those two languages and be that bridge, taking science-based ideas and turning them into effective policy, and so later on, I got a doctorate that was focused on public health, leadership and management, as well as an MBA, all of this with the goal of being a more effective collaborator and better understanding how different types of people and different types of organizations operate. So this bridging between groups and interest is really what I did for my 15-year career in public health, and it's also now what I do in the climate space. So I really love any job that has essentially three ingredients. So first is smart, passionate scientists, the second is a wicked policy problem, and then the third is the need to translate science into action to solve that policy problem, and that's really, to me, what's at the heart of both public health and climate.
Speaker 1:Which is incredible. Now, just following up on what you you know the answer you just gave, what you talked about, what's been the biggest surprise for you professionally over your 15-year career, when you have combined all of the degrees and expertise that you have?
Speaker 2:The biggest surprise for me is how similar things are. So, whether it's working in a foreign country, or working at a school-based health center, or working within the private sector, on climate, so much of the dynamics and the challenges are the same right, translating evidence into action, getting people to care about your issue, figuring out how to use limited resources, because we all want more resources, no matter where we are. So all of those challenges are the same and I see a lot of similarities between them, even more than differences.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really really really interesting, really really really interesting. Now, obviously, this episode is going to air in late February early March 2025. And there has already been a lot of change within the United States government and policy since President Trump was sworn in on January 20th, and we know he's taken swift action on climate policy, such as withdrawing from the Paris Agreement to freezing funding for environmental initiatives. What parallels do you see between these moves and early actions on global health security during this time?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a virus and a molecule of carbon dioxide have something really important in common they don't care about borders. So we live in an interconnected world and what the US does to contain disease or to address climate globally have real and direct benefits to Americans as well as the world more broadly. So if we don't want to have another pandemic like COVID that devastates the US economy and jobs, we need to have US epidemiologists who help stop outbreaks at their source. Similarly, if we don't want another devastating round of storms and extreme weather, we need to help other countries implement environmental programs to reduce carbon emissions.
Speaker 2:So engagement, both bilaterally with another country one-on-one and multilaterally through the UN, un and other bodies, isn't just something that we do because it's nice. We do it because it protects and benefits every single person in America. So, for example, why are egg prices so high? The bird flu you want to make eggs more affordable. Then you need to fund public health specialists to contain the epidemic. So I really worry about us not learning the lessons of public health or climate action until there's another pandemic or a major catastrophic event. But the thing is, we don't actually have to wait. A lot can happen in four years. So the time to act is actually now.
Speaker 1:So how do you get policymakers on board to help mitigate, as you said, the price of eggs and dealing with bird flu and really getting them to listen and understand the science behind it and how actions they take at the government level are impacting the entire United States and abroad?
Speaker 2:So I spent the almost the all of the Obama administration from 2009 to 2016 based overseas in Rwanda, namibia and Haiti working for the CDC, and it was a great honor for me to represent the US government, working alongside both colleagues in the US embassy and the local ministries of health, and in the summer of 2016, I was asked to become the head of policy and strategy for the Global Pandemic Division at CDC headquarters, which was again another incredible honor, and so I moved from Atlanta to from Haiti to Atlanta a month before the 2016 election. I closed my first home three days before the election, and I did that because I was excited about potentially working with a Clinton administration that had expressed a lot of support for public health. Chelsea Clinton and I actually both wrote our doctoral dissertations about global health cooperation, funny enough and so we had really detailed plans and priorities for a Clinton administration that was very much focused on the lessons learned from the Ebola crisis, and obviously the election in 2016 threw those plans out the window. So instead, I was looking at a Republican-controlled White House, senate and House of Representatives, and I was being asked to get more money for global health because we were facing a budget cliff as the emergency resources for Ebola were coming to an end, and so we pivoted.
Speaker 2:To your question about how you reach policymakers and get them on board with these issues is.
Speaker 2:We pivoted and we talked not just about the work of preventing, detecting and responding to outbreaks, but we changed how we describe that work.
Speaker 2:So, for example, instead of framing this as about humanitarian response, we chose to focus on how investments in health systems abroad benefited Americans by preventing disease, sustaining the economies that are vital for US exports and enabling the transit of people, so vital to the US tourism industry.
Speaker 2:And so, really, we talked about the health. Security is a national security issue, and so when you want to reach people, it's really important to break these benefits down by state and even congressional district, so you can show each member of Congress how and why our work benefited their constituents in terms of jobs, local industry, colleges and universities, and even how we were protecting the billions of chickens in their state. And it worked, with my division getting a 400% increase in its budget over three years, and it was one of the only public health programs to get a funding increase during the Trump administration. So the point is that you can reach people, even if on the face of it, they might. You might think that they're not interested or not in support, as long as you use language and connect with them on a way that they can understand that speaks to their particular set of interests.
Speaker 1:Now. I think that's absolutely fantastic advice. Now, with the 400% increase that you received, what are some of the biggest accomplishments you achieved and your team achieved with the additional funding?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were able to train thousands more epidemiologists. We were able to build labs to faster detect outbreaks and stop them at their source. Public health is one of those funny things where you only hear about things when they don't work, but you don't hear about all of the outbreaks that were contained at their source, all of the people whose lives were saved. You don't hear about any of that. I do think that it also the COVID pandemic would have been much, much worse in a lot of countries without these systems that we had built prior to the pandemic happening. And having that workforce, having those structures, having the information systems and supply chains all of that got built and that's pretty unsexy, unglamorous work, but it is so essential and so, again, it's about making that work that unglamorous, unsexy work interesting to the people who have to fund it.
Speaker 1:It's a similar parallel to the structure of a house. It's not sexy. The wood that's put up, the support beams are not sexy, but they're essential in order to keep building and to make the house what you want to say as good and as stable and as possible. So you know definitely some parallels there, and you mentioned the COVID-19 pandemic. So what role did you play during the time of the global pandemic that we were dealing with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I sometimes joke that I'm like the Cassandra of public policy because I spent 2016 to 2019 saying a pandemic is coming. A pandemic is coming and I decided to leave CDC for a little while and I went to the Guttmacher Institute to work on reproductive health and rights and while I was there I was saying the end of Roe v Wade is coming. The end of Roe v Wade is coming, and unfortunately, I was right on both those counts and CDC asked me to come back during the pandemic as somebody who'd worked on policy on pandemics, and so I spent a year as the head of policy and government affairs for the COVID-19 response, working 365 days talking to all members of Congress and trying to address their needs, make sure we were meeting the needs of their constituents, and really saw firsthand how much of an all of government it takes when there's a really serious crisis, and all of the skills and benefits that each agency brings to the table that are so essential.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely. Now, how did you know Now, how did you know what, in your professional career, your research, everything that you, the different agencies you've worked with, what made you say to yourself there's a pandemic coming and it's going to be the end of Roe v Wade?
Speaker 2:A very dark crystal ball, I guess, but we had modeled out the impact of a potential pandemic and written three papers modeling what would happen, even in a small outbreak overseas that would affect US jobs, exports, the health of chickens, all these things. We wrote three papers about them in 2017 and 2018 because we knew we were due for a hundred once in a hundred year pandemic Right, and we were like it will happen around this time and sure enough it did. So epidemiologists are smart. They really know what they're talking about and they predicted it almost to the year. So some of these things are evidence-based and are known.
Speaker 2:And I think the other part of it is that I do have a political science degree. I have that orientation. I've worked on the Hill and for a mayor and for a state legislature and you can kind of understand the political winds and where things are going to land, and so it's really important for people who work in policy to think about things from their different angles and experiences and say what do I need to deal with right now, for sure, but also what can I anticipate happening in the future and how can I work with my organization to get ahead of that?
Speaker 1:Do you think there was anything that the United States could have done to help better prepare for the COVID-19 pandemic? And it's? You know the effects on, obviously, the economy here, supply chains, global tourism, I could go on and on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another thing that public health and climate have in common is a cycle of panic and neglect, and so when something like the pandemic happens, we all panic, we throw money at the problem, and that's an important thing to do, certainly, but the better time to be putting money into something is before the pandemic. Right, you can't magically materialize a bunch of healthcare workers out of nowhere. It takes time to train those people, to get systems and labs and supply chains in place. All of that has to happen before an outbreak. The same is true for climate. Right, you can't just materialize out of nowhere firefighters, in the case of the LA wildfires, for example. You have to invest in those systems and those people ahead of time, rather than falling into this cycle of panic and neglect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we definitely have a reactive approach and I think you see that across industries and hopefully that will not always be the case when it comes to dealing with pandemics or climate emergencies. Now, pivoting just a little bit obviously still on talking about climate, but climate policy and market dynamics, I'm really interested to get into this part of our conversation. The voluntary carbon market has seen significant fluctuations in credibility and participation, so what lessons from global health financing can be applied to stabilizing and strengthening voluntary carbon markets?
Speaker 2:Great question. So, importantly, the voluntary market is still voluntary and because of that it's largely buffeted from political forces, which is a major difference from global health where, as we're seeing, politics can dictate funding. So, in general, where government and the voluntary carbon market intersect, it's largely just for investment to encourage climate emissions disclosure and to support nascent green technology and national government leadership on climate action is shifting worldwide and there's new leaders anticipated to make significant advances, to advance climate policy and to catalyze the growth in the VCM. Now, while the Trump administration is expected to slow down federal action, that means that the role of states in the US, other countries and the private sector, as well as non-governmental authorities, are all the more crucial for improving the integrity of the VCM. I will say that we think certain climate provisions, such as the 45Q carbon sequestration tax credit, should remain durable, and they do have strong bipartisan support.
Speaker 2:So, again, because it's a voluntary market, companies have the freedom to opt in or out of the market to the degree that they see fit, based on their business objectives objectives, and so governments may provide best practices or guidance or even limited regulation on certain aspects of the VCM, but directing the operation of the VCM is not a core function of the government, and so, in terms of strengthening the VCM, we encourage all participants, whether that be states or the private sector, or NGOs, the media, whomever it is to focus on two key things.
Speaker 2:So the first is to identify and buy actual carbon removal credits, rather than avoidance or reduction credits, so that you can have the biggest climate impact. And then the second is to prioritize quality. So less than 10% of the removal credits on the voluntary carbon market actually meet the criteria that we and Microsoft set out about what is high quality carbon removal, and there's only less than 4% of the credits on the VCM that are actually removal credits. So we're talking about a very small subset of this voluntary carbon market that is high quality, high integrity and high impact, and so what we want to do is encourage people to invest in that corner of the market and really grow it in order for it to, overall, have greater integrity.
Speaker 1:So because it really is only 4%. What advice do you have for state governments, local governments, corporations or even small businesses to be able to hone in on the carbon removal that 4%? What advice do you have for them and how can they find the information that they need to be successful?
Speaker 2:So there are two documents I think everybody in this space should be reading. So the first is every year, carbon Direct puts out a report called the State of the Voluntary Carbon Market and I would highly encourage everybody to read it. It's super informative. It's short and it's a great read and you get to understand the dynamics, including nature-based solutions versus high durability solutions. What are the trade-offs in these things? It's a really complex thing to understand.
Speaker 2:The second is to look at every year with Microsoft, we update the criteria for high quality carbon removal credits and we talk about them overall. What are things that apply to all technologies? And then we go technology by technology and explain across multiple dimensions. What are the things that are good to have, what are the things that are necessary to have in your project? So it's all transparent when we say you know less than 10% meet our quality criteria, you can see the grading rubric here and if you're a project developer, if you're a potential buyer, look at those. And then the other thing is ask for help. This is a lot of what we do at Carbon Direct. We help the biggest buyers on the voluntary carbon market find and source those high quality carbon removal credits. It's a very difficult thing to try and do by yourself. We have a whole fleet of scientists who specialize in this, and so ask for help get outside opinion, because otherwise you're risking wasting your money on non-impactful credits.
Speaker 1:Now. I think that's very important and just to say, it is okay to ask for help. We should all be in. We should all be working together to solve as many problems in terms of dealing with climate change and climate impact as possible, and don't reinvent the wheel you might, you're going to, you can spend so much money and so much time trying to reinvent the wheel. That doesn't need to be reinvented Absolutely. So now it's. I think it's going to be very interesting. I live in the state of Maryland, which is a very democratic state, and our governor is still continuing to push forward with climate initiatives, with EV funding, infrastructure funding. Do you anticipate they're seeing a divide in the country over the next four years when it comes to climate policy based on, you know, the red or blue states?
Speaker 2:The thing about climate action and policy is that it benefits everybody, right? Wind energy comes to your house if you're a Republican voter or a Democratic voter, right, that's the great thing about it it benefits everybody. So, for example, I live in Oklahoma and Oklahoma received as much money from the Inflation Reduction Act as California about $40 billion and we have a 10th of population. So the impact is actually greater here in this little red state than in the giant blue state of California, right? People don't necessarily recognize that and the benefits that brings.
Speaker 2:So much of this is like how we talk about the benefits of climate action. We don't need to talk about it in partisan terms. We just need to talk about it in the terms of regular people, in terms of making your power bill cheaper, providing you a new job that's well-paying. We don't have to talk about it as a green job, just a great paying job, and get people excited about things. That way, I think states that are going to be proactive in this space and understand the economic opportunities that climate action can bring are really going to be ahead of the game. I don't necessarily think it's going to break down along partisan lines as long as we keep talking about this in terms of the benefits that it comes to everybody. This doesn't need to be a partisan issue. It can actually be a completely nonpartisan one.
Speaker 1:And it just brings me back to the fact that we have solar on our house and, honestly, we got it. For the economic benefits, that was number one Great. We're helping the environment, lowering our carbon footprint. We have an EV. We have an EV charger set up in our home, so we charge using our solar panels. But when I talk to people about it, I always start with the financial impact, because where we live Baltimore Gas and Electric is unbelievably. The rates are unbelievably high. A house of our size it's about 3,500 square feet People are paying over $1,000 a month for their electricity bills and we pay $200, some price transparency here a month for our solar loan and that's it. And we're going to own our solar outright and we sell credits back. And there are so many different incentives financial incentives that when I talk to people about the benefits of having solar, that's what I focus on, because that's right now what makes sense to the normal everyday people is the economy.
Speaker 2:The solar panel doesn't care who you voted for, right. It's providing you that benefit, that peace of mind, that resilience in case of a storm coming your way. And that's the thing that we can connect with people on. Is, what is the personal benefit to you of your state doing something? You individually doing something? It does not have to do anything at all with politics.
Speaker 1:Do you think because there are so many climate actions at the federal level happening right now, do you think that it's going make private companies hesitant to continue on the path of becoming climate positive or really sticking with the goals that they have their ESG sustainability goals? Or because they know the stakeholders their stakeholders are on board. They're just going to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:I think if you are in the private sector and you choose to focus only on the US right now, sure, you might get scared off of climate action. But if you are going to be strategic, you're going to think both globally and long term. And if you do that, then you are going to charge ahead with climate action. Right, because these things take a long time to build. Right, if you want to increase energy, you're going to have to start building a power plant now. You're going to build a solar farm or wind farm. You better start that now if you want to be ready in a few years. Right, if you want to diversify and strengthen your supply chain, if you want to lower the carbon intensity of your product because you can see where consumer demand is going you should be doing that now.
Speaker 2:So the key is not to fixate on oh no, the immediate term, what's happening right now, and allowing yourself to kind of be like thrown around by the political winds. Rather, you're going to say what is best for the long-term global development of my company and obviously, if you do that, climate action is going to be at the top of your list. And it's not again, it's not about politics or anything. It's actually about strategy and economics, right? So wind is cheaper in many places than fossil fuels. We know that renewables are going to be even cheaper in the future. We know that regulation is going to come from other states and from other countries. All of those things are coming down the pike at you, and so best time is to get your house in order now.
Speaker 1:No, I think that is great advice. Now, can you talk to us about a time where I don't want to use the word convinced, but you were up against policymakers that maybe were not going to be on board with your plans and what you wanted to accomplish in your roles at the CDC, and how did you bridge that gap? I know we talked a little bit about the language you use and focusing on what their strengths were, but do you have a specific example that you could share?
Speaker 2:Sure, so I teach negotiations at UNC, chapel Hill, and I love it. It scares everybody. When I say the word negotiation, everybody kind of breaks into a cold sweat. But I think it's one of the most important skill sets that anybody can learn over the course of their career.
Speaker 2:And one of the most fundamental things to understand about negotiations is the difference between positions and interests. So positions are what people say they want, and then the interest is what's their underlying motivation or concern or reason for saying that. And oftentimes we get fixated on the position. So somebody might say I don't like climate, I don't like global health, and we tend to just try and convince them no, you should like this, don't like climate, I don't like global health. And we tend to just try and convince them no, you should like this, you should like this. And what we don't do is take it a step further and seek to understand their underlying interest or motivation. And maybe it's I don't want my constituents tax dollars wasted, and so we need to plug in there.
Speaker 2:And that's really what we did when we were trying to secure more money for global health security post Ebola. So we said, okay, we're not going to just talk about the humanitarian response or the benefits of this we're again we're going to talk specifically about for your state, for your congressional district. Hey, x number of jobs in your district are tied to exports to other countries, right, and if their economies are shut down and they don't have money to pay or they close their border, this is what's going to happen to jobs from your voter base. The other thing is that we did is we pivoted and we talked about language that met their interests, around what committee they were on, for example. So when we were talking to somebody who was maybe on the defense committee, we would talk about how global health protects US military forces overseas from disease outbreaks. Talk about in terms of force protection. So it really comes down to talking about the interests of the other person. It's not about you, it's about them.
Speaker 2:And so the other thing I would say is to use social math, right, so oftentimes you'll be like this costs $150 million. Well, you could also just say that that costs $1 for every taxpayer Way more digestible, easier to remember, and you're giving them a talking point that they can use to be your advocate further on. And so we did that again a lot with global health, and you see this right now in some of the messaging about trying to explain USAID's budget is to break it down into simple terms. Right, nobody really knows like how much a military destroyer costs or something like that. But if you break it down into like dollars per person or it's the equivalent of something else people can, it's much more digestible.
Speaker 2:So I'd say, make things digestible and hyperlocal. And then the last thing I'd say is sometimes we're not the right messenger and we get fixated on I want to convince you of this but somebody who's you already have a relationship with or you have things in common with more than you and I do. They may be the right messenger. So broaden out your base and bring people into the fold who you may be very different from but can reach your target audience.
Speaker 1:I think that might be one of my favorite quotes from our conversation. You might not be the best messenger, and I think that is that can transcend whatever you do professionally and personally, so I think that's a really, really important message. To drive home is again, also we're not one person. You're not one person. You have a team. You have your own expertise, your own experience, but you also should rely on the expertise and experience of your team members and their relationships to be able to work towards a common goal.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now so well. I feel like we could continue this conversation for a very, very long time. It's been wonderful so far, but I want to look ahead now. Looking ahead what are the biggest risks and opportunities for climate action in the coming years, not just during the next four years of Trump's presidency, but beyond that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can think of three major risks, but they're also the biggest opportunities, and when we have this complex landscape, it's really easy just to focus on the risk side of the equation and not think strategically about the opportunity side. So a few big risks and opportunities that come to mind. So first is obviously and we're seeing this very intensely right now political uncertainty and policy reversal. So flip-flopping and changing and we're part of the Paris Agreement, now we're not, now we're in, now we're out. That can be very unsettling and disruptive and we realize that the lack of federal government action may slow or reverse some of the climate progress we've made to date. But, however, the flip side of that, the opportunity side, is again, if you look nationally, like more globally, or if you look more long-term, you'll see that other businesses, your competitors, your investors, local governments, other countries are increasingly driving climate action independent of national politics, and so the opportunity there is to get ahead of everybody else and to make those investments.
Speaker 2:Another big risk I think that people are focused on is insufficient climate funding and this investment gap.
Speaker 2:I said earlier we all want more resources, excuse me, okay, and so how do we scale private and public climate finance and the flip side of that risk is the opportunity to think about green bonds or getting more engaged in the carbon markets or using other types of climate investment frameworks to close that financing gap, to use the existing resources from the Inflation Reduction Act, particularly around the tax credits, to scale up technologies.
Speaker 2:And then the last one I think that people are very focused on is the slow adoption of decarbonization in key sectors. So that might be in heavy industry like cement, steel or aviation, where cost is still quite high and there's technical barriers. But on the flip side of that there's been a number of advancements in green hydrogen and sustainable aviation fuel and carbon capture and sequestration electrification, which make that deep decarbonization more feasible. And so, again, if you get in early with those technologies and integrate them into your system, you'll be well positioned for the future. One of my favorite things is that I work with about 70 scientists at Carbon Direct who are some of the smartest people I've ever met and I really see them think strategically about. Here are the challenges, but here are all the incredible opportunities and they translate that work with clients to get ahead of the challenges that they're facing, and that competitive advantage is what's going to make climate action possible.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely Now, on a personal slash professional level, what technologies are you most excited about in the future?
Speaker 2:I have recently been diving in a lot on electrification. I think it's a really fascinating area and we see this growth of data centers and the hyperscalers. There's huge electricity demand, so understanding things like as wonky as different carbon emissions methodologies to understand your carbon footprint we just put out a great white paper on this I learned so much Really fascinating Understanding about purchase power agreements for renewable energy it's incredible. The other thing is to think about natural gas with carbon capture and storage. We have this huge demand for energy and electricity. How are we going to meet it, especially in a way that doesn't affect regular people? Like you and I don't want to see our electricity bill go through the roof we all have to come together around that technology.
Speaker 1:Now, I couldn't agree more with you there and I think, when it comes back to some of the things that you've talked about, the messages that you mentioned earlier, which is the messaging, and make sure that the messaging that's being put out is factual and accurate, an example of offshore wind farms off the coast of Virginia, virginia Beach, and people are up in arms because their bills are going to go up, but if they did a little bit of research they would realize they're going to go up 47 cents a month on average. So it is. You know, I think in today's society and I'm sure you can reiterate the sentiment you have to take it upon yourself to do the research and and look at data and evidence and make the best decisions. You know, on a personal level, but at professional level too, if you're, if you are running those companies or working with policymakers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would also say it's incumbent upon us who have the energy, the education, the privilege to spend time doing the research, to share it with others and make it understandable for them. So, 47 cents I'm not going to forget that number. Now, right, you just taught me something that makes my life better and easier, and you shared that with me in a way that I could understand, and so, for those of us who have these insights, it's really important for us to share them as much as possible and bring these big ideas about offshore wind farm, bring it down to a very personal level so that we can be better informed consumers, better informed voters, better informed investors going forward.
Speaker 1:No, I think that that's a great, great message to take home for our viewers and listeners. So I keep going back in my head to the debate between clean energy and fossil fuels. And how can there be a balance, not just in the United States, but globally? And can there be a balance if we're not just looking at energy production but we're looking at the economy, job creation, all of that?
Speaker 2:It's complicated. I think that one of the big things to understand is that in so many places, renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy, right, and you want to run to that not just because it's good for the environment, but it's good for your bottom line, right. And so I think it's very easy to get caught up again in the political conversations about we should drill more, we should export more natural gas, when really the conversation should be like what is the most cost effective or the cheapest solution for me personally, or for me for my company?
Speaker 1:No, I think that's. That's a great point. And not many know too that the state of Texas is just behind California in the number of clean energy initiatives and job creation. So when you think of Texas at least when I think of Texas I think big oil companies. But there's actually a lot of push towards clean energy in that state because the resources are there, the space is there to generate additional sources of energy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mentioned I live in Oklahoma and driving around. Sure, you see oil wells, but you know what? You see more of Wind farms, way more wind farms. Right, because we have this base, we have that abundant natural resource here and it makes sense, regardless of political affiliation, to tap into that resource.
Speaker 1:Now, definitely Now. I know we have to wrap up. We so appreciate you being here with us today and I hope this is not the last time that we get to sit down and have a conversation, because we would love to have you back. But what final advice do you have for policymakers, business leaders and advocates working to advance sustainable and equitable policies in unpredictable political environments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question.
Speaker 2:So I have three pieces of advice. The first is to make your work personal and relevant to other people. So we talked about talking to their interests, not just their positions. To talk about the things that they care most about, to use language that resonates with them. So I live here in Oklahoma surrounded by farmers, ranchers, hunters. You know they actually care a lot about the environment. They are very knowledgeable about changing weather patterns, so I talk to them about that. I don't try and talk about green jobs, we just talk about jobs. Maybe they don't want to talk about climate change or climate policy, but they care a lot about like hey, the rain doesn't come when I need it to anymore, and so we talk about that.
Speaker 2:So, first is to make your work personal and resonate with other people. The second is be ready when opportunity arises and don't let a good crisis go to waste. So, as I was joking about earlier, being like the Cassandra of public policy and being like the next crisis is on the horizon, whether that be a legal change or an outbreak, whatever it is, but be ready issue, and then all of a sudden it breaks into the spotlight. So, when it does, be ready with those messages. Be ready with your asks, not just, oh my gosh, now. Now people want to talk to me about my niche issue. Be ready, have a game plan, because you never know right when that Overton window shifts and now you're in the spotlight.
Speaker 2:And then the third is to take care of yourself. And then the third is to take care of yourself. This is a long game. These are stressful times. I got stress-induced shingles on my face when I was 25 and working on the H1N1 outbreak in Rwanda, and I think that it was the best thing that ever happened to me, because it taught me that nothing is more important than my health and taking care of myself so that I can show up in the long term for these fights, whether it be about public health or about climate. So take care of yourself. Step away if you need to Take a break.
Speaker 1:But remember that we have to be here and we have to continue showing up long term Wow, fantastic advice and not getting lost in the noise while you have to step back. I know there's a lot of individuals in my network, professionally and personally, that just have to turn, turn the TV off or turn their social media, social media channels off for now, because it's just too much and they need to focus on themselves and what they can control and what they can do, which is not always easy.
Speaker 2:It's not easy, but the only person who's ever going to take care of you really is you, and you know what you need and when you need it and how. But you have to show up for yourself, just as we show up for these issues.
Speaker 1:No. Well, on that note, I think we are going to conclude today's conversation. Thank you again so much for being here. We will have some links in the podcast episode to Zara's work and other ways to connect with her, and thank you again for being with us. Thank you so much, jessica. In the next 60 seconds, ask yourself how can I contribute to a brighter, more sustainable future, not just personally but professionally? Let's embark on this journey together and shape the landscape of sustainable leadership for tomorrow. Take the first step now and make a commitment to lead with sustainability in mind. That's all for this episode of Sustainability Unveiled. Join us next time as we continue exploring the forefront of sustainable business practices. Until then, stay informed, stay sustainable.
