Leadership Through Turbulence: A Conversation with Justin Dring

The episode features Justin Dring, a renewable energy expert and entrepreneur, sharing his journey from electrician to leader in sustainability. During the conversation, Jessica and Justin talk about the importance of adaptability in leadership, the drive to protect the environment, and the critical role of communication in fostering collaboration across cultural boundaries.

• Justin's early background as an apprentice electrician
• The evolution of his leadership style through different roles
• A personal awakening to the need for sustainability
• Adapting leadership in various cultural contexts
• Overcoming obstacles within the renewable energy sector
• The vital importance of building trust during challenging times
• Promising future developments in the UK solar market
• Educating traditional industries on the benefits of solar energy
• Rewards and fulfillment found in mentorship and guiding others
• Key advice for emerging leaders to take risks and foster relationships

Connect with Justin on LinkedIn. 

Chapters

• 0:06 Leadership and Sustainability
• 8:50 Navigating Leadership Across Cultures
• 20:43 Navigating Turbulent Energy Markets
• 30:53 Effective Communication in Business Decision-Making
• 34:28 Leadership Lessons From Experience

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Sustainability Unveiled, the podcast that explores bold ideas and transformative solutions, driving sustainability and business success. In this episode, we're thrilled to feature Justin Dring, a passionate entrepreneur, renewable energy advocate and problem solver. With over 25 years of experience in the energy sector, Justin has built a career on navigating complex challenges with innovative, tailored solutions. From fostering strategic business partnerships to spearheading large-scale renewable energy projects, His work embodies the perfect balance of sustainability and value. Justin is a pioneer in integrating advanced monitoring, metering and IoT technologies, empowering businesses to reduce waste, optimize energy use and thrive in a rapidly evolving energy landscape. Beyond his technical achievements, Justin is deeply committed to educating business leaders and advocating for renewable energy technologies to foster a sustainable future. Join us as we uncover insights from Justin's journey, explore strategies for resiliency in turbulent times and discover what it takes to lead in the renewable energy revolution.

Speaker 1: 1:28

This is Sustainability Unveiled, where sustainability meets leadership. Let's get started. Well, Justin, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. We really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be on with us, and I'd love for you just to give our audience a little bit about your background. You know we can read about you on LinkedIn, so something else besides what we can read on LinkedIn, and then just some about your journey.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Yeah, yeah. So I started at the grassroots of energy and engineering as an apprentice electrician of energy and engineering. As an apprentice electrician Managed to get a job straight from school as an electrician with a council. So that was a big jump into reality seeing how other people live and out there fixing problems, and became an electrician pretty quick. So four years training there really enjoyed that but was hungry to get out and kind of try and make a name for myself. And uh ended up setting up my own business as an electrician. Um built a small property company looking after properties as well as um, as well as doing M&E work electrical work over here, which was which is good and exciting um, and that that grew into quite a few few members of staff. We had fun with that. Um. And then um, I, uh, we moved on because solar was moves, solar was starting um, so started a solar company on the back of that and uh, and and yeah, had loads of fun and um.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Some of the turbulent times hit us in the UK energy market with feeding tariffs coming and going and companies going bust. So in that instance we had to close one of the solar companies that I was running, which was devastating, but we recovered. I went to work in a corporate environment for guys delivering commercial, so kind of dipped my toe into the commercial world, which was very, very interesting. Again, a kind of an awakening moment of going, wow, these guys move fast, they work hard, long hours, just like the lads in the SME market, just like the lads on the tools. Really enjoyed that. And then, yeah, eventually came out of that, built my own company again and, yeah, just exited from that last year. So and now I've been consulting since then. So that's a whistle stop tour of my journey.

Speaker 1: 3:58

Of your journey. Well, you have a vast experience, obviously in different leadership roles. A vast experience, obviously, in different leadership roles. And so, really, how have you seen your transformation as a leader? From your start, you know, as an apprentice, learning the trade and then building companies, working in the corporate world. What really has, you know, continued your drive to want to help other companies and see what you can really bring to the table to help them be successful?

Speaker 2: 4:29

Yeah, my leadership journeys. Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? Because you find out, oh, I'm leading. Now I've got people following me like people doing as I've done, and so, as an apprentice, that got quite interesting when we weren't doing what we were supposed to be doing, when we were. Probably you'd use the term goofing off, but we'd say that too. But you realize you've kind of got an influence that's beyond your role or your title on the sites and that can be good or bad. You can lead people either way. So finding that out in in that area was was good and interesting. Um, and yeah, then then seeing that develop.

Speaker 2: 5:09

So the the kind of leadership element of, ah, I've actually people do what I say, um was I realized that at work, because people do what you do when, because you're paying them and you're the boss.

Speaker 2: 5:23

But in the voluntary sector, when I've worked in there as well, and at the same time as being an electrician, I was also working in a voluntary organisation helping out with a band at the time it was, and you realise, in that world you need a different style of leadership and a different way of leading people. So in that it kind of was two different worlds and it's always been two different worlds of. Some people will follow you because you're paying them and they have to follow you as the leader. Sometimes they'll follow you because your name's over the door, so in some circumstances I've been the sole owner and runner of the business. And then, in partnerships, sometimes you'll have people within the organization that will not do whatever you ask them to do. It doesn't matter how good a leader you are, whether you woo them or whether you demand and shout, or whether you come up with all these intricate bonus schemes for them to hit targets. Yeah, leadership is an interesting journey and I'm still learning. I'm still learning. I'm still learning and still finding loads of stuff out.

Speaker 1: 6:29

And I think that's the case for anybody who's an entrepreneur. It's trial and error and pushing those boundaries and seeing really what you can accomplish individually, but with your team too. Now I want to get back to focusing on sustainability, energy, innovation. So, really, what inspired you to get into this line of work besides just, you know, being going to the apprentice school to be an electrician?

Speaker 2: 6:56

Oh yeah, so in the in the very, very early years of in when when payment, so they brought in what's called a feeding tariff in the uk where they there was a big advertising campaign of like getting into solar and helping, helping be sustainable and this is a technology that's um accessible and and I think as as an electrician realizing all this, we can, we can make a difference here if we start putting these solar panels on. But then actually I think what, what really struck home for me with sustainability and why I've stayed in energy, is probably because when I was really young, like seeing nature and seeing the damage that we have had on our environment, is you can see that in kind of your um like we were on holiday as a family and snorkeling and you can see all these beautiful fish and these beautiful colors and you can see the damage. Like going snorkeling and and enjoying holiday like 10 years later you can see the difference in the environment. You can see um miles of dead coral over in in in the maldives and places like that, like that's. That's where I was when I seen all of that and that and seeing those types of things impacted me as because I want, I want it. I want the world to be a better place. I want the, obviously the.

Speaker 2: 8:16

We don't want to damage this environment that we've, we've been, we've been given and you can see, you can, you can actively see that in in light pollution, in loads and loads of different ways, and realizing that every solar panel that we put on is a tiny bit back of protecting that for our kids for the next 10 or 15 generations. So it really is more than just being in sustainability and being energy and and almost being on your soapbox and preaching carbon. It does get a bit repetitive, but it doesn't doesn't get any. You don't get any less passionate, because the environment still needs people to, to, to be standing up for it, still needs people to be champion, champion in the carbon um, playing games with the kids, getting them to turn lights off. It's not because I'm a skin flint, it's not because I'm, it's not because I should.

Speaker 1: 9:10

Uh, yeah, I should bring my husband in. Who's who's off from school today. The lights in the house.

Speaker 2: 9:15

I'm, I'm guilty of that too, but he, yeah, he's, he's harping on the kids constantly about that but getting them, getting them enjoying it and having some fun with it, like, come on, boys, let's, let's have a, have a race so you can turn the most lights off, they suddenly then getting them aware of it is is, is a big, big part of of having and it's the same in business like you can walk into the boardroom and they'll have the window open, the air con on, then the heating on, and you're like guys, what, what are you?

Speaker 2: 9:43

you and you can, because you can sound like a bat, like you're pointing and telling people off, but actually you're just there going like let's just turn our brains on. Let's like a kid, go turn the light, switch off, let's have some fun with it.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Okay, no, I like that, yes and relatable, and you're getting your kids involved and I'm sure that what you do in your professional life does transcend to your personal life too and having those conversations with your kids, which obviously is something if you are a listener to the show. We do talk about the bridging the gap between different generations, which is one of our main focuses of this company. You're based in England and I know you do a lot of work in England consulting, but you've also worked in other countries, you've worked abroad, so how have you had to adjust your leadership style to different cultural differences within these countries that you are working with or consulting in?

Speaker 2: 10:43

Oh it's, it's massively different. So the, the, I'd say the common, the common thread, the kind of starter point is, is the kind of worth, ethic and the, the, the kind of weight that people feel on on energy efficiencies and like everything around sustainability and helping their environment. They, they, they've all got a similar core value, but how that is, how that is led and how that's worked out, is very, very different and in in different communities. So, um, for example, um, I got the honor of working over in africa consulting on an off-grid project over there, very, very exciting um it was. It was a mini grid, it was kind of cutting edge at the time we were doing it and it was leading the guys in that environment of helping them be safe, helping them deliver the, helping them hit their targets as well as them to get the kit working. So, because I'm an engineer at heart and because of my experience back in the in the day, um, when I turn up on a site and there's guys struggling to to deliver sustainable, sustainable um resource and and this, these, these off-grid um systems that you can't help yourself but kind of not just stand and write a report and and that's one thing, but then to go and help them, but you can't walk across and almost come out of your lane to go and tell somebody what to do. It does take that kind of that leadership of going oh hang on a minute, I know how to lead in British culture, which is one thing, but then putting the hang on, I'm in Africa. How do I now relate to this person? How do, how do I make sure we were speaking the same language English but obviously speaking the same language as in their values and how, how they, how they work and how you get still get the high quality work out of those guys, as well as communicating the value of right Work out of those guys, as well as communicating the value of right we yes, we could go home now because that's, it's that time, but you've only got me for so long. Let's, let's stay so.

Speaker 2: 12:51

So, communicating and helping that shift and that pivot of of leading people in into producing better results through communication and connection, better results through communication and connection. And you know what? We had a good laugh and the guys that were on those sites were flipping, hardworking men and women, absolutely brilliant team over there delivering projects and when they hit the sweet spot, of drive and everybody's pulling together. They're relentless when they realize you're not against them, because a lot of the time, as a as an engineer, you can sometimes come across because we do know.

Speaker 2: 13:32

We know enough to be dangerous, we know enough to be lethal, but we can come across as a know-it-all and and actually we're not in in the roles that we get put in when we we can sometimes come across as that know-it-all, but it's our role as a leader to change that hat from English culture to an African culture and be able to communicate. Hey, this is the way we need to do this to be safe, but then on the same hand, we need to get this finished and trying to communicate. That it's exciting and fun and it translates into other cultures as well. So, working in different parts of Africa again the culture changes. We had one engineer that travelled for like 30-odd hours on the back of a bus just so that he could work with the team that was there. So there's chalk and cheese with people as well, even within culture, which is really exciting, and the fact that we get to do energy and get to do leadership it's great. It's great getting to do both at the same time.

Speaker 2: 14:35

So yeah very tricky, very tricky.

Speaker 1: 14:38

And I can see and I'm sure our audience will see too just how passionate you are about the work you do, and obviously it's not all. You know sunshine, so what? Talk to me a little bit about some of the obstacles that you've had to face as a leader. You know internationally, but also you know home in England and how you address you know the obstacles, how you worked through them and you know just some of the differences there.

Speaker 2: 15:09

Yeah, yeah, so, um. So some of the turbulences um are with, with, with people. I find it's either an internal turbulence or an external turbulence. So with um, with leading a team and leading a group of individuals, whether UK or anywhere, they, they. If, if somebody's coming to you with a series set of engineering problems and the person has got a problem, so there's an internal storm, that that could be anything from the payslip was wrong to they got out of the bed, the wrong side, the bus, the bus was late. There's almost seeing the person behind the engineering problem that's coming to you and as a, as a leader in engineering world, it's very easy for us to to put the helmet on or or to put the suit on and lead on, but actually if we hear the person behind the problem, we'll get a better solution out of that person and a better drive from them, because we've actually heard and understood there's an internal conflict. It's not just all of these, not just the materials haven't turned up on time, the quality or the quantity isn't right for this project, or we've run out of solar panels on a job. We were supposed to have a thousand and we've got 800. Those types of fun things. If you see past the person and see past the problem and and hear if, if there's so, there's those.

Speaker 2: 16:29

There's those two internal and external things that are tricky to lead with and tricky to um, uh, work, work with and and sometimes it does go wrong. So I've, I've, obviously I've, I've been in a, in a, in a partnership agreement where we've been running a business together and both of us both of us were super passionate about um leading for a better future, super passionate about saving the planet. Both of us really, really resonated with each other in the area of call, so in what we wanted to do, but then how we wanted to get there was very, very different. So I wanted to build men and build teams and system and process, whereas my partner at the time in business, he wanted to scale a business, to sell it and move on and develop in the sales and in moving into acquiring other businesses. So that was a time when, when you, when you're 50 50, it's very, very difficult to um keep a team underneath you, motivated to deliver projects on time, um to be customer facing. Everything's okay, um, it's almost like everything's okay, but my bosses are falling out, so it's like one of those really the the team could sense that there was a change coming. They knew that we were heading in different directions. And leading in that change is keeping the team right and finishing projects right in front of the clients and in front of what was going on, but then also being true to like letting him finish his race in his lane. And I think the the mutual understanding when, when companies do do that and when individuals and leaders do do that and realize that the relationship grows and develops.

Speaker 2: 18:22

And actually it's okay for businesses, business leaders, to grow apart within organizations, because one of the one of the things as a leader is sometimes just people follow you. I've had team follow me through three of those companies. I've had one or two guys that have followed me every step of the way, and it's not because I've gone back and poached them, it's because they've gone hey, where are we working? And I'm like we're designing now, mate, we're not doing that anymore and they just want to be. Once you've won somebody and you've helped them through their problems and you've run out of problems, you've got that journey with that person, then you've almost won them to a point of they're more than just an employee, they're more than just turning up for a paycheck. They're turning up to want to be be with with you and fight your battles and help you with your problems and and and that's that's a really interesting thing.

Speaker 2: 19:16

So when you do have division and you've got two guys going in two directions even though we both had different relationships with guys on both teams at the same time um, it was, it was very, very interesting and and and you know what, looking back, it was tough at the time. But now, with that greater knowledge of going, hey, we led. We led our teams well through that, because the business has carried on. He, he's carried on running the business, he's carried on running both of them and keeping the teams together. He lost a few of the guys, but you know what, like everybody's better off for it he, he's getting to build the business that he wanted. He's getting to go in the direction that he wanted, and, and and I'm I'm getting to do the things that I needed to do. So it's, it's a um, it's an interesting thing. Just leading, leading through those times is is very interesting.

Speaker 1: 20:03

It definitely is and it requires, you know, leadership in forming a sense of trust within your team. So how do you think you you know you and your former partner were able to establish the trust that is needed to have projects continue during the turbulent time, as you mentioned, when you guys were splitting and going into different directions?

Speaker 2: 20:28

So we, we made a, we made an active decision, um, of of doing a. I, I will, I will, I will step back, I'll, I'll let. Let you take the reins of this, this, this, this and this, um and the. The beauty of at the time, we timed it that I was, I was able to pass on, and so we'd trained and developed about 26 internal staff on our side of the business to be able to deliver projects, and they had their checklists, they had their systems and processes. So for them it was business as usual. It was just the top seat, wasn't there? The phone, I wonder what we should do about this problem. Where's, where's, where's justin? Um, that phone call was going. Ah, do you know what? He's not around. I'll call the other guy.

Speaker 2: 21:20

So, because we'd set everything up so well, down, down down to the, the process of buying, the process of approaching a problem, the process of, of, of delivering a, a solution, whether it, whether it be a energy saving one, a metering one, a monitoring one, a solar, whatever we were doing at the time, that doesn't matter, it's the process, isn't it? That then the team could, could anchor themselves in. Oh, we're all right, business as usual, we've got projects, the, the other, the my partner kept the business flowing. He kept more leads coming in, so he kept the team moving and developing um, which was great, which which was absolutely great.

Speaker 2: 21:59

So it's, it's the, it's the trust and the faith in each other, in in those moments and um. You only get that through having built three, four years of solid, like late nights in the office, long drives together. You know each other, you know you know each other at that point that he's got this, he's got this, he's going to, he's going to look after this because they are family. At that point that he's going to look after my, this, this group that we've. We've grown.

Speaker 1: 22:26

So, yeah, it's good, it it's interesting, it's an interesting time, great question yeah, so really, you know, the foundation of any relationship is communication and and having effective communication, and it seems like that you really have established. So do you have a blueprint for what worked for you in terms of passing that on to other companies, or what you use as you? You know, go into different consultancy roles.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Do you know what? Because everybody's so different, it flips and it flips and changes. So because of the different personality types, that that you've got it, it really it really does like it does matter what personality types are leading are leading teams. I've with with personal development. We With personal development. We used to sit down with our team leaders and get them to do their personal assessments so they could work out how they fitted together. But every situation is different because people have got different skill sets.

Speaker 2: 23:25

So in my role at the moment, I can come across companies that are brilliant at sales and got no operational sense. And then I come across companies that have got the ability to deliver millions of pounds worth of product or of service but really struggle to sell. So it's it's in energy. It's really interesting, especially in the UK, because it's it's an industry where guys have grown doing what they do best. So you may have an electrician that's amazing at fitting boilers or amazing at CHP or amazing air source heat, and he's out there all day, every day, doing that, but then when he comes to sell it, it's a, it's another. They're not used to that. So there's there's all these different, all these different things. Uh, all these different things going off and there's so much the. The scope for solar in the uk at the minute is massive, so it's, it is, it's almost, um, it's almost like a free-for-all. It's, uh, there's so much work there's only five.

Speaker 2: 24:25

We've only done five percent of our roofs.

Speaker 1: 24:27

So that's I remember yeah, real number like between 5% and 8%. Yeah, when we met talking about this and it's just so interesting to see the differences between the United States talking to you and the UK and the role of solar. So obviously it's a very exciting trend that solar is increasing in the UK. But what else can you tell our audience about the level of solar, not just residential but commercial too, and what excites you the most about the next five to 10 years?

Speaker 2: 25:01

So the UK is really really interesting. So there's so many. Our utility is broken up into different DNOs, network operators that look after different sections of the country, and all of them have got kind of a different set of rules and a different process for getting projects through. So in certain areas of the UK you can come up with a project a couple of megawatts on a roof or a couple of megawatts in a field, or even quite a large commercial installation, and the national grid in that location will help you. They're process is slick, they're fast at getting back to you. They'll quote and say, yes, you can turn this much power on here, or hey, we need to limit you. So the market's really exciting in some of those areas. In others of those areas it's a little bit slow. Now I'm not going to name them, but some of them are a little bit slow and a little bit If I said the old boys club you'd know what I meant Kind of that kind of remit and and it's tricky hey to, you've got so many different solar companies, so many different developers, all all rolling out different schemes. Um, I think some of some of the really interesting stuff in in the uk um is is utility scale battery. We're seeing that getting getting deployed quite a lot at the moment. There's quite a lot in planning. So our network operators have actually said, regarding battery, if it's over a megawatt there's a massive waiting queue and they almost do a first first come, first serve with the, with the projects. So your project has got to be, um, ready to go. They call it spade ready, don't they? So that that that development has literally got to be ready to hit the road running. Because that capacity agreement, the, the availability of of power on the grid, because our grid's ancient ag, we got victorian cable still running in some places. Don't tell anyone, um, and and, but that's just. That's because we're an old country and because, like some of our roads have, we can't dig them up. We, you know, I mean we can't, we can't do certain things in certain locations. So rolling out an ev network is is really tricky because you got to find those little spots on the grid that have got the available headroom, have got the available capacity and the and the pull that that puts on the national grid. And then you've got guys wanting to deliver battery scale solutions, utility scale solutions, which are all over the country. They, they tend to be out in the sticks by the 11 to 33, like by the really big transformers, um, and they they take out of sight, out of mind, um, but they are providing grid balancing because of our increasing evs, um. So it's a really interesting and there's there's so many different voices in in the uk energy market of um, the, the national grid guys needing more money for infrastructure, um, and the, the installers of solar small scale, medium scale, saying we're not paying for it, alongside the government trying to say we're going to do this new green bill and we're going to do this, this and this for feeding tariff or export tariff. So it's really that so turbulent times, so leading in turbulence, is exactly that that you've.

Speaker 2: 28:54

You've got clients who want to deliver renewable, want to deliver one, want to um. One of my clients, uh, wants to have a full fleet of evs, wants to have a full building of, so it wants to be carbon negative and and the grid in his area can't take it and he's hearing all three voices at the same time. So he's he's hearing the government say, yes, we want to invest and and a strong business case from from our, from our government saying yes, we want to invest and a strong business case from our government saying we're green, we want to go this direction. You've also, at the same time, got the national grid saying we can't deliver this because of restraints in your area, because we've got things to improve At the same time as then the installer going well, we can deliver this, this and this product, but only in these timescales.

Speaker 2: 29:31

So you do have that turbulence of giving him the right advice, helping him through, finding the right financial solution, never mind the right product to fit those three things. And then the client might ask you about future proofing and you're like well, which? Which conversation should we listen to here? So it is. Do you know what Like leading in turbulence and developing a sales team in this environment is is exciting because you need to teach the ability for them to pivot in, even in a, in a presentation or even in a consultative role with a client or with developing an installer. It's a really interesting time and energy in the UK and there is so much opportunity within that as well.

Speaker 1: 30:21

So I want to go back. There's a lot that you just said I want to go back to when you mentioned the good old boys club, the ones that might be a little bit slower to get on board. So how do you work with them? How do you make the business case for this group of individuals to really buy in to solar and the new technologies and not just have it be status quo?

Speaker 2: 30:48

So, yeah, it's a really, that's a really good one, that's a really great question. So, with when you've got a client or you're developing a team that's delivering something to that kind of environment, it is very, it is very, very interesting. So, um, educating those types of that, that kind of group, that those people with that mindset, is very, very difficult and quite challenging. Um, what we've found is speaking their language. So, um, in in that environment and and I know and I know I we don't want to get any negative here, but if I said that was a kind of a typical small to medium farmer. So they are out in the sticks. If they're going to put solar on, they're going to have to reinforce their grid, so they are slow to to respond to a good idea, a good offering. Yet they're some of them have a running generators because they can't they can't upgrade their mains or upgrade the, the loop, or they're uh, they're producing milk and they've got all those types of things to deal with.

Speaker 2: 31:55

Um, so, if we're dealing with one of those types of scenarios, um, it really is the numbers. It really like they're speaking, speaking the numbers, speaking like you're spending this much, we can save you this much, looking at, looking at the wider option of of communicating that in a way that they understand of this is this is almost like you, a year's profit on your milk or your eggs or your whatever that element is in that respect, whatever that element is in in that respect, um, you also bump into that archetypal, that that kind of personality trait, um, in heavy industry and in in commercial engineering as well, um, where they've always done it this way and you, there's no, there's, there's no way they're gonna look at putting anything on their roof. Um, and and again, the numbers, the numbers. You don't need to wait for a change of leadership within an organization when you've got a company, that's, if they had this solution, it would save them £40,000 a year. Or, if they have this solution with a massive company, it could save them £300,000, £400,000 a year. Then every month counts. So then you break it down to every day you're losing, you're losing this amount of money out your door.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Um, and and the be the be real or let's not play, is also very useful. And and also like with if you're leading a team of salesmen or engineers, or or when the two, you you've got salesmen and engineers communicating chps and stuff like that, like pulling them in and going, hey, if that, if that's not going to go, let's not waste resource, internal resource, on chasing something that is is just going to, is just going to die if they've not got the inner desire. If they're, if, if there's an opportunity that you can't qualify, then walk away. If it's not got a qualifying criteria, if there's genuinely no desire to be green, to jump on our bandwagon, to come and save the planet with us, then we can't force them onto the bus. We can't, and there's no point manipulating them onto the bus or arguing. If you argue, in the end they'll get argued out. There's no point.

Speaker 1: 34:14

Yeah, exactly. All you can do is provide the data and the evidence and be transparent with them, and ultimately, it's a decision that they have to make as either a small business or medium size or a large company. So I like that. You do have experience working with different size businesses and I really I know we've been having this conversation now for a long time and I'm really enjoying sitting down with you to learn more about what it takes to be a leader through turbulent times and how your experience has really shaped. You know the companies that you have formed, as well as you know the workers, the employees that you've had with you. But, looking back, what do you think has been the most rewarding part of your career?

Speaker 2: 35:09

rewarding part of your career. That's a brilliant one, so the most, the most rewarding thing. So I'm walking down the high street. I'm walking down the high street and in central Manchester it was and I hear somebody shout my name and I recognize the voice as being the voice of one of my apprentices from years and years and years ago. And I turn around and there is Liam running down the street in all of his gear, in all of his electrician's gear, gives me a big hug and says, hey, justin, thank you. And I say what for mate, like I've not seen you in years, like I've seen him on Facebook. He got married and stuff like that, and he won't mind me using his name. And he'd literally got married and stuff like that, and he won't mind me using his name. And he'd literally he'd set up his own, he'd been a let, he'd become an electrician underneath me years and years ago and seeing him develop into being um, running a great company, like looking after some guys of his own, servicing clients, like delivering projects, um, and then and then just getting the thank you.

Speaker 2: 36:06

Um, money's, money's one thing, isn't it like it? Yeah, we, it's great to have money, um, but a thank you goes so much further and I think that was probably one of one of my defining moments of uh of doing it and probably one of my my super superpower moments of uh in turbulent times when I need to fix myself on something going hey, remember that down the street those staff are worth it. Those tough conversations of please up your game, come on, please be on time, please get finished on time, please submit your forms it's worth those awkward conversations to get a lad running down the street what? 15, 20 years later? Um, saying thank you for the thank you for telling me off and thank you for looking after me and thank you for training me. So, yeah, there's a few of those types of guys around and occasionally, when you bump into them, you get a really proud, really proud moment.

Speaker 1: 36:59

Oh, I'm sure you do so. I mean, obviously, the work that you did with him inspired him to start his own business. So what advice do you have for emerging leaders? Or you know people who are, I say kids, but you know teenage, late teenagers, early 20s, who are really navigating these major challenges of deciding what they're going to go into. Or you know those who want to jump in and start their own companies.

Speaker 2: 37:28

Oh, do you know what I'd say? Go for it. Like, there's so much learning to do, don't get stuck in paralysis analysis, don't get stuck analyzing everything. It's much easier to turn a turn a moving ship. So I'd say go, go for it, go for it, try, try, have a go. Um. One of one of my mentors growing up would always say have a go. You mug um and I'm still having a go. So uh, that's uh, and that never, that never wears out.

Speaker 2: 38:00

Um, take people with you. So Liam, the young lad that ran up the street, said thank you. Like, if you take people with you on the journey, um, a leader off by himself's an idiot on a walk. So a leader has got followers. So let's like taking people with you massive, really, massively important, even even if it's not even employed, but just with you in the journey of like finding, finding those um people doing business alongside you. At the same time, it can be in completely different um businesses. One of one of my close friends is is a plumber and and and he's been doing his thing in his lane and we, we still get on, even even now, with me doing what I do and him doing what he does.

Speaker 2: 38:42

It's those, those types of champion people that champion you, um is is really important, um, and I'd say, yeah, I think, um, I think, having having the allowing people to give you their best advice at the right time so there's list listening to people, people, and not being scared to ask what would you have done differently, you can avoid. 20 years, 10 years. So be teachable is what I'm trying to focus on, because, as a 18 to 35, 18 to 20, we watch a lot of YouTube and that can teach us a lot. But there's guys out there 35, 45, guys in the industry, old boys that have been selling for years, and a five-minute conversation with them can literally remove miles of minefield. They remove you getting in trouble with the bank, or you getting in trouble with the bank, or you getting in trouble with the tax man.

Speaker 2: 39:47

Just those, just those five minutes. So I've probably got about five or six guys that even even now, even even yesterday, I was sending one of them a proposal I'm doing hey, he's been retired a long time, um, yet he can still pick holes in something that is is kind of in my world, cutting edge in. In his world it's, it's just bricks and mortar lad, um. So, yeah, having those having those relationships and still staying teachable, still staying teachable fantastic lessons to leave our audience with.

Speaker 1: 40:17

Well, justin, I hope this is not the last time that we are going to have a conversation, because we'd love to have you on again and and you know to continue the conversation and and check back in with you. But thank you so much for being a part of Sustainability Unveiled. We really do appreciate all of the leadership and guidance that you shared today. How can I contribute to a brighter, more sustainable future, not just personally, but professionally? Let's embark on this journey together and shape the landscape of sustainable leadership for tomorrow. Take the first step now and make a commitment to lead with sustainability in mind. That's all for this episode of Sustainability Unveiled. Join us next time as we continue exploring the forefront of sustainable business practices. Until then, stay informed, stay sustainable.