E+E Leader: Sustainability Unveiled
Welcome to "Sustainability Unveiled," a podcast that delves into the essential domains of Sustainability, Environmental & Energy Management, Compliance, Global Supply Chains, and more. Prepare for insightful conversations that dig deeper than the superficial, enriched by our distinctive human approach that amplifies expert analysis.
Join us as we navigate the juncture of environmental stewardship and corporate initiatives through captivating discussions that reveal fresh perspectives and practical solutions.
Embark on a transformative journey with us as we unravel the intricacies of forging a sustainable future. Welcome to a podcast that transcends the ordinary, revealing the authentic core of sustainability.
Interested in being a part of this program?
Apply Today: Form
E+E Leader: Sustainability Unveiled
Industry Insights: Transformative Strategies for Supply Chain Excellence
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
David Meyer LinkedIn
BSI LinkedIn
BSI Website
Connect with Jessica Hunt and the rest of the team at Environment+Energy Leader - LinkedIn l Twitter l Facebook l Instagram l YouTube l BlueSky
Do you have an idea for an episode?
Call for Speakers - Environment+Energy Leader
Like what you hear? We'd love your support! Please share, like, and review our podcast! Use #EELeaderUnveiled
Additional Opportunities to Support
Evolution of Sustainable Supply Chains
Speaker 1Welcome back to Sustainability Unveiled . My name is Jessica Hunt , one of the co-owners of Environment and Energy Leader . We are so excited to have you join us today for a deep dive into the dynamic world of supply chain management with industry expert Dave Meyer from BSI . Listeners can expect to explore exemplary companies and industries have pioneered data collection and supply chain management . We're giving insights into their influence on sustainable practices globally . The session will also address challenges in advising clients on global supply chain practices and the transformative power of advanced analytics and supply chains . This event is a valuable opportunity to gain insights and explore the future of sustainable supply chain management with Dave Meyer . I am so pleased to welcome Dave Meyer from BSI with us today , dave welcome .
Speaker 2Thank you .
Speaker 1It is absolutely wonderful to have you on Sustainability Unveiled with us . We are so thrilled to just jump into our discussion about supply chain and sustainable supply chains . Before we do that , I'd love to talk a little bit more just about you in general . And who is Dave Meyer , for those who don't know .
Speaker 2For those that don't know me , many might consider me an old-timer in this business . I've been doing this type of work now for what is now my 45th year in the profession of environmental health and safety , consulting , organizational sustainability and resilience , environmental governance standards , now management systems work throughout a variety of industries . I've really been focused on management systems , the design and implementation for the past 25 years , both at the corporate as well as public sector , environment and now with the evolution around lifecycle assessment and product stewardship and corporate responsibility . That's really my focus professionally and here at BSI . I'm a devoted husband . I'm a father of two that are all grown and out of the house and not asking me for money anymore , and one furry-legged buddy named Sir Charles Winthrop Waddlebottoms who literally waddles when he walks .
Speaker 1That is a fantastic name for a dog .
Speaker 2For all of our dog lovers yes . You bet . And in my spare time I'm a photographer , sculptor , hiker , biker , and I'm looking forward to seeing what my new knee , now 10 weeks post-surgery , will do this year and beyond . So hopefully I'll get a little bit more pep in my step .
Speaker 1Well , I know we talked about that in your recovery and how well you're doing , and so it's nice to hear a little bit about Dave Meyer , not the professional , but personal life as well . I can't imagine my kids never asking me for money anymore , because I feel like it's constant Now , given they're only 10 and almost eight . It's going to be a long way , but a long time , before that happens .
Speaker 2They actually trusted me . Now I love it . They came back to the roots . When it comes to being a parent , you lose them for a while and they start coming back in their mid to early 20s .
Speaker 1That's good , I haven't hit the dreaded teenage years yet with my daughter , so I'm going to hold off on that for a while , but all right . Well , let's jump into our conversation today . I know in prepping for this , we talked a little bit about the different industries and we talked about how there are certain companies and certain industries that really have taken that first step and took the first step a long time ago in leading the way in sustainable supply chain practices and data collection . So I'd love to hear your experience , given that you've had 45 years in this industry .
Speaker 2It's been a very interesting process , as we've seen more organizations , both global organizations and local organizations , embrace sustainability and not consider it a bolted on type of an activity . Without naming names , well , I will name names . I kind of see several industry leaders that have taken the lead and it really kind of started in the mid to early 2000s and then it went into the early 2010s . I'd say Companies like IBM , walmart , general Motors and GE , hewlett Packard and Herman Miller . They all looked at how their supply chain was a critical step in them attaining their sustainability goals within their organizations at that particular point in time , some organizations like IBM or General Motors they really started looking towards their suppliers , implementing management systems approaches and looking at how they were addressing their environmental footprint . As we saw , other organizations like Hewlett Packard and Herman Miller , looking at product design and looking at how they can engage their suppliers with respect to assurance of their goals from a sustainable perspective in producing products that were more sustainable , that were more aligned with their corporate way of thinking , were taking on a different approach , a more collaborative approach , and they took more of the cared versus the stick approach with those types of organizations . So their focus was on supplier alignment with their environmental practices . There were also some very high profile environmental and labor related incidents over this period in the apparel and tech sector which received a lot of bad press , and it led those organizations to develop supplier codes of conduct to create more emphasis on supplier responsibility , not just from an environmental and health and safety perspective , but also from a labor and human rights perspective as well , so that even evolved more in organizations like the EICC , which is now the responsible business alliance . The pharmaceutical supply chain initiative sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry is two big examples where they have aligned with many of the large organizations within those sectors , within tech and apparel , to create supplier responsibility codes that suppliers globally could align with and , along with that , then develop methodologies to self assess and then also be assessed by particular customers as well .
Speaker 2One great example , too along those lines is and I will name this name because I really think that they really set a huge standard in the apparel industry and that was Nike . Right here locally where I am working out of Portland , nike developed a lot of product design standards for their suppliers and made it open source . That was probably in the early to mid 2010s , and a lot of my sustainability colleagues were very much behind that , and our company even , ultimately , was involved with supplier enablement for all of their suppliers to drive that supplier code of conduct , but not just in design but also in the manufacturing of those goods . So so I know I'm talking a little bit long , but I kind of see this in a stepwise progression . And and then the the emergence of GRI standards , the Sustainable Accounting Standards Board , which is now morphed into another organization reporting requirements and climate driven reporting requirements like CDP and TCFD from the investment community . That started in the early 2020s .
Speaker 2So you've seen this progressive change in how companies are aligning their supply chains throughout the value chain , both from extraction of minerals and , like conflict , minerals in the tech sector to end of life and , and looking at circularity , product circularity as well . So it's it's really been an amazing metamorphosis , if you will , of the industry . And now we're seeing consumer driven behavior as well , where people speak with their pocketbooks , particularly the younger generation , my kids generation , the millennials , post millennials . They are driving what organizations are thinking , or how organizations are thinking around the area of sustainability and holding them accountable for it as well .
Speaker 1Well , I'm not . What's going to be my ? My next point is do you think when you talk about the metamorphosis of , you know , sustainable supply change , you think that in since the in the past five to 10 years , it's really consumer driven , the not just , obviously , investors ? You need to get the input from your investors , you need to get input from all the stakeholders , but there has been such more of a focus on really establishing a transparency , establishing a culture of transparency within your organization , and that's being driven mostly by a younger generation .
Speaker 2That's definitely been a large factor . Less of a factor has been , I would say another large factor has been around the , the investment community . They they've really driven what has changed , especially in the last few years , when you think about what BlackRock and State Street advisors started advising their portfolio customers in what they had to do , especially around climate , climate disclosure . I think the consumer community , the young , the younger generation , really glommed on to that and we've seen , of course , climate is in our zeitgeist now on a daily basis . If we're not experiencing it like the floods in California just the other day , where LA got half of their annual precipitation in two days . I mean it's really making people think about what they buy and how they consume and that is driving how companies make things . Basically .
Speaker 1And the generations now are learning at an even younger age .
Enhancing Supply Chain Sustainability With Analytics
Speaker 1An earlier podcast episode I talked to Marissa Rosen of Climate Social , and should we talk about that ? We talked about how sustainable practices , climate change , climate action are being infused into the curriculum for students at even younger , younger ages now , and so they live it , they're living it , we're all living it , and they get to make the changes necessary .
Speaker 2That's very true , and I'm constantly reminded by my daughter that I'm not woke enough in this area . But I said well , I'm like 85% woke . That's kind of like a beat . My mantra is always trying to change save the planet one company at a time , and . But I think we need to move faster . We need to move one industry at a time and one world and think more globally . And that's why supply chain sustainability is so important in driving any organization's sustainability goals , and you can't really be a truly sustainable organization if you don't have your supply chain along for the ride .
Speaker 1Very , very , very true there . Well , I know that you deal with challenges that come up during when you are advising clients . What do you think is the biggest or the primary obstacle your clients have when it comes to initiating or changing their supply chain practices ? Understanding that complexity is dynamics , they do require a strategic navigation . How do you help them get through this process and really identify the obstacles that they're facing ?
Speaker 2Well , the first thing that we often have to do is whether it's working with a sustainability director or environmental , health and safety person is we really have to help them make the business case to their management about how important this is . Some companies , many organizations , actually come to us because they've been told they've got a major customer that has a supplier code of conduct and they don't have the resources to be able to effectively go out and monitor their supply chain on a rigorous level . You can imagine there's some companies that have tens of thousands of suppliers for many of their critical products worldwide . Having a good understanding of what those suppliers look like in terms of creating the biggest risk is really the first step in helping them understand where those business risks lie from an environmental , social and governance perspective , so that then you can begin narrowing down which of those suppliers you want to touch first . It's an iterative process . We've seen a lot of organizations take several years actually to start working with tier one suppliers , moving on to tier two and tier three suppliers as well , and make it a real cascading process . In order to effectively do that , supplier alignment and enablement is really important Once those supplier codes are put into place , providing training and orientation to suppliers is a real key ingredient . Suppliers understand what is expected of them .
Speaker 2We at BSI , as an example , have worked with organizations like that , or organizations themselves have taken it upon them , to align with their suppliers . Also , I might add , align with regulators in respective countries . Ge was one great example where , probably about 13 , 14 years ago now in China , they had what they call the Sustainability Summit . They not only work with their primary suppliers , but they also brought in regulators from China Environmental Regulatory Agencies and workshop the issues as well . A great example where everybody was working together and pulling together at the same speed and the same pace . But I think for us , helping customers have the capacity to meet their own internal requirements and their own customer requirements is really paramount . That's a big challenge for us . We often find , too , that engaging certain professionals within our companies that we work for , like procurement professionals and designers and engineers , and driving circularity up and down the value chain , is that new area where we've been really focusing our effort to shore up some concerns or pushback that we often get from inside companies .
Speaker 1It is a holistic process . The entire organizations now are involved . There's not a specific person that is in charge of supply chain logistics or supply chain sustainability . I'm really happy that you mentioned that some of the companies you've worked with do take years to get to where they feel like they need to be , and that it is a process . You have an end goal in mind , but , okay , you got to work backwards . What steps are you going to take first ? Then , from there , you can build .
Speaker 1The more data that you have , the better . You can go , use that data and make future predictions . You can use that data and make changes . So I think it's important to know and this is a question that comes up in webinars a lot is a lot of people don't know where to start . People just in companies sometimes just do not know where to start . So if I'm going to come to you , Dave , and I want to overhaul my supply chain and I'm working in down my entire value chain and I'm in different , I have suppliers in different countries what do you tell me to do ? What do I do first ?
Speaker 2Well , as I said , the first thing you really want to start focusing on is understanding where your high risks are , and some of those could be geographically located as well . When we think about analytics and data , our organization has proprietary software and it's a subscription-based service , but I would say that during COVID we actually open it up to everybody worldwide . It's our knowledge services group and supply chain group has a program called SCAN and what it can do is it can scan all the various different risks worldwide . It could be anything from water or climate or violence , war zones , any . I mean all manner of risks associated with supply chain interruptions worldwide , and we can leverage that information as well , if that's something that companies are looking for to help better identify and document where those risks are within an organization's supply chain .
Speaker 2The pharmaceutical supply chain initiative is an example actually places a high focus on business continuity issues , which again can be climate-related issues , labor-related issues , labor strife , violence , wars , etc . To better understand where the risks are within an organization . So we like to work and start there and identifying those risks and , on the basis of those risks , develop protocols and processes to help companies start to evaluate their suppliers against those risks , those high-risk areas , using environmental , health and safety professionals , using labor and human rights auditors as well . We , you know , fortunately have capacity worldwide , throughout the US , the Americas , apac and MIA and elsewhere , so we're fortunate that we can mobilize the right staff to work hand in hand , side by side , with our customers in addressing those risks .
Speaker 2The other factor that I wanted to mention , when you're looking at supply chain sustainability risks and finding solutions to those risks , is around infrastructure and technology and how that intersects with regulatory drivers . You might have a great idea about what you might be able to do , for instance , to reduce packaging or to take waste associated with the production of a particular product , but if you don't have the infrastructure , the technology available and nearby geographically and that's aligned with product stewardship or regulatory drivers , it's going to be very challenging . You're almost kind of out there as a lone wolf doing your own thing , but that's where the big challenge is that we face , and that many industries face as well to drive improvements in the entire value chain and make sure that there's success . There's still a lot of gaps that need to be filled .
Speaker 1That's also a common theme I've heard when speaking to other professionals within supply chain management . Now analytics , advanced analytics we know that that's going to play a huge role in filling in those gaps that you just mentioned being able to collect data more efficiently , more effectively . So what do you see within the next , even just 12 months ? How do you see analytics changing within this industry ?
Challenges and Innovations in Sustainability
Speaker 2Well , we within BSI , we're really focused on digital trust and making sure that we do have the technologies available to collect and utilize that data in an efficient manner to help drive business decision making . That's something that we've been focused on now for several years and we've seen this emergence , of course , with other ESG and EHS data management software platforms , which have been around for many , many years , constantly evolving , and we see all of our customers rely more on data to help drive decision making . The challenge is where does that data go ? How can it be extracted ? Who would manage that data ?
Speaker 2And that's the biggest challenge that people feel right now is that there's almost data fatigue . To some extent , we're certainly seeing it in reporting and have seen it for many years now . The issue around reporting fatigue and the way that companies are gathering that information and trying to find more efficient ways to provide that data when they're being asked many , many times over from multiple companies for the same types of information , it's a little daunting . To be frank with you , the whole use of more data analytics and now artificial intelligence is starting to come into the discussion as well . I'm an old timer . This is new space for me and thank goodness there's younger professionals out there that are much better at data manipulation than I am for sure , because that is the way that this business , our business , is moving , for sure to help drive decision making .
Speaker 1So how do you prevent or navigate data fatigue then ?
Speaker 2Well , I've seen a lot of organizations really try to find find better data management system so they could collate data by entering in specific queries or data data nodes where then they can roll up site or organization specific information so that if , if and when a customer say ask for ESG reporting data , if they know exactly what they're looking for , then they could generate a report pretty quickly . It still relies on staff within that company to be able to constantly upload and add new information as it's being collected , and so that's what we're seeing a lot of organizations that have more of a global footprint , where they take data and roll that up from multiple sites , multiple locations , and then roll that up into a centralized database so that then they can report more adequately the various different ESG metrics for a particular customer .
Speaker 1That definitely makes sense there and you know , I know , companies have their internal validation systems in terms of looking at the data , validating the data , but now I need to choose a third party validation system or company . How do I go about doing that ? How do I know that the third party system is going to be right for my specific industry and my needs ?
Speaker 2Are you referring to global certifications like ISO 140001 and the like , correct ?
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Well you know , for I've been involved in third party certifications , global certifications like ISO 140001 , which is the environmental management system , 450001 , precursor being also S180001 , which was a BSI standard for 25 years , ever since the initial standards were developed in the late 1990s , and prior to that , iso 9001 . Companies are constantly seeking to find the competitive edge . It was almost like it was so competitive when I used to work and live in San Diego , especially for the McElodora's manufacturing electronics down in Tijuana in Mexico as well . It was a badge of honor for them , but they also knew that it was a competitive edge that they needed to have in order to be able to sell and market their product as well . We're seeing third party validation and certifications continuing to drive improvements , not just through these types of certifications that I'm talking about now , but there's new certifications around product stewardship , product responsibility , like R2 , which the Siri has developed , and these are all good for the industry because it drives innovation . It drives improvements in how organizations make things and how they can design products for circularity .
Speaker 2There's a lot of greening of the supply chains that have been really in focus for 20-plus years to not just reduce the environmental footprint but again to focus on improvements in health and safety in the workplace , to assure that labor and human rights are being overseen as well and more prominently .
Speaker 2Now , of course , from an environmental perspective , the focus really is on carbon reduction and carbon impacts and looking at reductions in overall greenhouse gas emissions to meet companies' climate goals . So the thing that I'm seeing the emergence of it's being called something else . I used to call it design for environment . Then it involved the design for sustainability , now it's called product circularity . Whatever you call it , it's really looking at your entire value chain , to look at ways , innovatively , that you can reduce and extend the life of a particular product and then take anything that the product any product at the end of its life and then re-manufacture , disassemble it and use those materials that you can extract properly and then re-manufacture them into new products . That's what we're seeing companies go towards , and they're finding that global certifications really help to enhance their competitive edge .
Speaker 1When do you think that there was really a change in sustainability supply chain where the focus really did become the theme of circularity , of really reusing and repurposing products or and it's huge in the textile industry , because there's so much waste in the textile industry in terms of reusing those products ?
Speaker 2It's actually been kind of a slow roll , jessica , I would say you know .
Speaker 2Again , going back to what Nike did by making all of their product designs open source back in the mid-2010s , I think that was a huge leap in the industry as well , and you found other companies in the apparel sector especially focusing on that . Walmart , again around 2005 to 2007 period into the early 2010s , really changed the entire retail landscape by requiring product redesign or packaging redesign . Packaging has always been hot , if you will , compared to some of the other ways that companies can reduce their environmental footprint , and Walmart really changed that . They're a huge mover in the space . Their goal was to get more SKUs on the shelf and less space as possible . It made business sense to them , but it also altruistically went beyond that . It really helped them focus on sustainability and why it was important for them . That led to changes in transportation and logistics and how companies stocked and distributed through warehousing the goods and services to reduce the mileage and , at the same time , reduce fuel costs , reduce carbon footprint . These are major changing aspects of what I saw in the last 20 years , at least from my perspective .
Speaker 1And I know just from speaking where I live in Maryland . I live in Anaheimdall County and starting January 1st this year stores were not providing plastic bags anymore . So countywide here I know we're a little bit behind compared to some states like California , but if you forget your bag you're kind of stuck .
Speaker 2You're going to pay an extra nickel .
Speaker 1Exactly .
Speaker 2I actually just read today that the US Postal Services is about to make some major changes to reduce their greenhouse gases by as much as 40% to 50% , not just through new electric vehicles , but changing the distribution process in a centralizing distribution of the mail system . It could be a major overhaul in terms of how they do business . Hopefully they'll do it more efficiently and won't raise the price of a stamp , but nonetheless , I think it's an important aspect of what government agencies are doing and public agencies , public organizations , are doing to also drive sustainability . We've really been focusing on the private sector but again , the public agencies have played a huge role in driving efficiencies and sustainability through a lot of executive orders for the last 20 years .
Speaker 1I know we talked a little bit about this when we met earlier in the month , which I guess that was in January now but my husband's active duty Navy he's a supply officer in the Navy . He's been able to talk to me about the transformation over the past 16 years and how the Navy is really putting sustainability more at the forefront compared to how it was years ago , whether it be supply chain or just different partnerships to bring renewable energy to bases . That's something that it's nice to be able to talk to him about , that , to see that the government federal government is doing good things .
Speaker 2They are .
Speaker 1It might be a little bit slower , but we're moving in the right direction .
Speaker 2It takes a long time to turn an aircraft carrier around .
Speaker 1It's true . This is true . I would love . I know we talked so much about the sustainable supply chain industry , but I really want to hear what your plans are . What's your next step ? I know you're going to always speak at different events and I love going to listen to you speak and have in the past , but what's next for Dave Meyer ?
Speaker 2Well , it's not official yet but , as I said , I've had a great career in this business and I'm slowly starting to seed some upfront work to some of the younger professionals and looking towards what my after work years are going to be looking like .
Speaker 2So it's a little bit of a slow ramp right now , but my envisioning is that I'm going to be starting to ramp things down in the next couple of years and look towards maybe doing more sculpting , more hiking , biking with my new knee or a lot of volunteer work and doing environmental education for younger generations .
Speaker 2So doesn't mean I'm going to completely walk away , but I want to invoke something if Joel McCower hears this , because he kind of went through his own thought processes earlier in the year and last year about being the guide from the side versus the sage on the stage . I've never considered myself a sage per se of the likes of him and some other colleagues , like your friend , who I admired greatly , but I believe it's time to really see what the next generation , the younger generation of professionals , can do and be that guide from the side and cherry pick projects that bring meaning and joy to me and at the end of the day I can feel like I made a difference , as my son many years ago , who's now 36 , took me to his school for show and tell . At the time , captain Planet was a big cartoon on TV and he introduced me as his dad . That saves the planet , and that the mantra has always stayed with me . So I believe that , you know , my job in my Great career that I've had has been really , really rewarding .
Speaker 2But I want to be able to give back in some other way In the coming years ahead , when I still got a good knees and I can go , go and well , you have a new knee now , so I have a new knee and even you need to see the tourism .
Speaker 1I think that's so wonderful that you know you want to be that mentor for the younger generation . You really do want to , to help people get into this industry and really see the positive impact that they can have , and obviously it's transcended into your personal life too , even with your kids at a young age . So I you know , I I do know that we've got a wrap up shortly , but I thank you again for being a part of our podcast , being one of our guests , and I'm gonna give you the floor for the last minute or so If there's anything that you want to , any other piece of the advice that you might have or anything else you want to say before we we sign off .
Speaker 2You know , as I said , there was a time when I came into this business where you had enough time to actually kick your feet up onto your desk and and actually Think about things In terms of solutions to environmental issues . That time is long past . That train is that , that ship is sailed , and my advice and I think , the learning experience for me for younger professionals is to always be agile and stay up to date On new rules and regulations . That's always a challenge for all of us in this profession . If you are In the private sector or even in the public sector , or you're an advisor , like myself , always be a great listener . Listen to what your clients need , not what you think they want , but constantly think about innovative ways to advise and provide Cost effective and efficient solutions for your customers , and always be on the bleeding edge of innovation with your colleagues , whether it comes to data analytics or use of AI to drive efficiencies .
Speaker 2This is the generation that I'm working with right now that sees the value of this and has the mental capacity to be able to deal with something like this . So be on that bleeding edge of innovation and , if you're in private industry , don't be afraid to challenge your supply chain and don't be afraid to challenge your internal customers as well . Leverage , talk about risk . Everything's a risk play in our business . So Be an ally to your internal customers and to the suppliers as well . Build that strong business case and Eventually your your solutions will will see the light of day .
Speaker 1So it's a really wonderful advice to leave with . Well , dave is extremely active on LinkedIn , so if you Are done listening to this episode and you don't already follow Dave , make sure you head on over and follow him . He is always sharing fantastic words of wisdom , as well as resources . But , again , Dave , thank you for being on with us and we look forward to working with you more in the future .
Speaker 2Thank you very much . I appreciate it . Thanks for inviting me in . This been a fun time Talking with you and sharing some of my ideas .
Speaker 1In the next 60 seconds , ask yourself how can I contribute to a brighter , more sustainable future ? Let's embark on this journey together and shape the landscape of sustainable leadership for tomorrow . Take the first step now and make a commitment to lead with sustainability in mind . That's all for this episode of sustainability unveiled . Join us next time as we continue exploring the forefront of environmental and ethical practices . Until then , stay informed , stay sustainable .
People on this episode
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
Sustainability Soundbites from E+E Leader
Environment+Energy Leader
We Can Do Hard Things
Treat Media and Glennon Doyle
The Ryan Dohrn Show
Ryan Dohrn